Andrew ([info]andrewwyld) wrote,
@ 2004-09-07 10:01:00
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Current mood: jubilant
Current music:Waltzinblack (The Stranglers)
Entry tags:definition, irony

Irony

irony1 n orig the Socratic method of discussion by professing ignorance; conveyance of meaning (generally satirical) by words whose literal meaning is the opposite, esp words of praise used as a criticism or condemnation; a situation or utterance (eg in a tragedy) that has a significance unperceived at the time, or by the persons involved (cf dramatic irony under drama); a condition in which one seems to be mocked by fate or the facts. -- adj ironic or iron'ical. -- adv iron'ically. -- n i'ronist. -- vt and vi i'ronize or -ise. [L ironia, from Gr eironeia dissimulation, from eiron a dissembler]

irony2. See under iron.

from the Chambers Dictionary

After years of being plagued by English students (usually these) telling me "that's not irony" (and, admittedly, perhaps I should have bitten the bullet and used "hypocrisy" rather than appealing to a sense of irony) I decided to look the word up, once and for all.  This was partly inspired by another former English student of my acquaintance, who insisted on a specific definition of syllogism as the only definition.  As a brief aside, a syllogism means, primarily, an argument based on a universal statement applied to a particular case, the classic example being:

All men are mortal; Socrates is a man; therefore, Socrates is mortal.

It turned out that in modern critical theory, a secondary meaning is more commonly used, which I think I have identified as false syllogism:

God is love; love is blind; Ray Charles is blind; therefore, Ray Charles is God.

Whatever your opinions on the great man's piano playing, this statement proves nothing.  Anyway, I realized that irony was, similarly, unlikely to be restricted to a single meaning, and so cries of "that's not irony!" might turn out to be factually false.

How delighted I am, therefore, to discover that not only the commonly-used sense of irony pertaining to events which appear to mock us -- as in the song by Alanis Morrissette -- but also the sense of irony being like goldy or bronzey -- as in the comment by Baldrick -- is correct.




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[info]phlebas
2004-09-07 02:08 am UTC (link)
Hmm.
So if the ten thousand spoons were made of, say, steel...

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[info]andrewwyld
2004-09-07 05:39 am UTC (link)
I refuse to rise to that particular bait.

But I nearly didn't.

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[info]senji
2004-09-07 02:19 am UTC (link)
Of course, the only irony in the Morissette song is the song itself...

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[info]j4
2004-09-07 02:49 am UTC (link)
The point he's making is that the types of irony mentioned in the song are, by a commonly-used definition, irony. So surely the real irony here is that you completely failed to read the post!

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[info]senji
2004-09-07 02:50 am UTC (link)
I couldn't possibly comment :).

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[info]andrewwyld
2004-09-07 05:33 am UTC (link)
Commonly-used and dictionary-sanctioned; you are quite correct.

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[info]andrewwyld
2004-09-07 05:34 am UTC (link)
Of course, using the Bender-sanctioned definition of irony from Futurama ("the use of words expressing something other than their literal intention -- now that is irony!") one could claim that Alanis was using the word ironic ironically -- in other words, expressing something other than its literal intention.

Now that is irony!

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[info]j4
2004-09-07 02:47 am UTC (link)
I thought a syllogism was by definition a game of three halves; I am, however, an English student, so feel free to disregard, etc.

Your Ray Charles example reminds me of the reason why fire engines are red. It's because, you see, they have 4 wheels and 8 men. And 8 plus 4 (as any fule kno) is 12; 12 inches make a ruler; one of the great rulers was Britannia, who ruled the seven seas; in the seven seas are fish; fish have fins; the Finns fought the Russians, and the Russian flag is red.

Anadiplosis? No, she went of her own accord.

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[info]singingnymph
2004-09-07 03:45 am UTC (link)
It reminded me of the proof that girls are evil. It's actually math, but one can see how I made the leap.
http://www.extremefunnyhumor.com/pic149.htm

hugs

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[info]andrewwyld
2004-09-07 05:37 am UTC (link)
It is, usually, comprising major and minor premises and a conclusion.  The major premise is the general statement ("All men are mortal"), the minor premise identifies an individual with a class ("Socrates is a man"), and the conclusion is that the individual has the property ascribed to the class ("Socrates is mortal").

It suffers, of course, from the fact that any statement we make about a class is inferred from a great deal of data about individuals.  Socrates was mortal, of course, but someone else might turn out not to be; the proverbial last man on earth, with whom women seem so loath to procreate, would be in a position to claim so to anyone who might listen, before they died ....

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[info]smhwpf
2004-09-07 01:03 pm UTC (link)
Socrates was mortal, of course, but someone else might turn out not to be

Surely it would be impossible to ever find out that someone was immortal? All that could ever be known is that they haven't died yet.

The last man (or woman) on earth wouldn't really be able to claim immortality either, as they could never know for certain that they were immortal.

Does this mean that the statement "All human beings eventually die" is unfalsifiable and therefore, according to Popper's characterisation, not a scientific statement?

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[info]andrewwyld
2004-09-08 02:56 am UTC (link)
Precisely so.  My point about the last person on earth is that no-one would be around to watch him or her die.

Of course, Popper later rejected logical positivism on the grounds that "it was all rubbish".

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[info]momentsmusicaux
2004-09-07 04:59 am UTC (link)
But Eric Clapton is God, not Ray Charles!!!

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[info]andrewwyld
2004-09-07 05:38 am UTC (link)
Jack Bruce.

Sorry.

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[info]gealflings
2004-09-07 06:27 am UTC (link)
I just can't get past the fact that 'ironical' is actually a word.

*grumbles*

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[info]andrewwyld
2004-09-08 02:55 am UTC (link)
It's an excellent word ... why the long face?

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[info]gealflings
2004-09-08 09:03 am UTC (link)
"Isn't it ironical" just sounds stupid. "Isn't it ironic", however, sounds much better.

...and how'd you know I was actually a horse?!?

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[info]singingnymph
2004-09-07 03:09 pm UTC (link)
Now THIS is irony. Courtesy of the Pentagon.
http://www.newsday.com/news/politics/wire/sns-ap-pentagon-bogart-video,0,2296561.story

hugs

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[info]fireflesh
2004-09-07 04:00 pm UTC (link)
We English People (not to be confused with your English people) are lording and pretentious to the point of naughtiness. It's a point of pride, really.

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[info]andrewwyld
2004-09-07 04:17 pm UTC (link)
You absurd people.

Still, you have a fire hose.  I'd better not argue this one too strenuously.

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